strange Multiply behavior

[Piesi]

Hi Jeff,
first, since i´m new to you and to this communty, I want to say hello to everybody! I´m more and more getting into Mobius and this is by far the most valuable piece of freeware i know of and I want´t to thank you so much for that!

The reason why i´m writing this, is a problem i´ve got with the multiply function. Sometimes (about 10-20% of the cases), after pressing the multiply button the second time to end the multiply, the loop plays not from start again, but from the beginning of the second cycle.

I spent a lot of time, trying to figure out, if maybe some preset parameter is set wrong. after deleting and reinstalling mobius, it was gone, but came back as i set track1 in sync mode "out" or "out user start" (havent tried other sync modes). With sync mode "off" i couldn´t reproduce that.

I use Mobius 1.40 in Bidule. Mobius "plugin output device" goes over midi yoke to a "midiclock to sync" module, to sync severall Kore instances within Bidule to Mobius. Reaper is the main host and is working on a winxp maschine...

so, i hope you, or somebody else, has an advice for me. And I´m curius anybody got the same problem...

best regards
Frank

[Jeff]

I haven't seen this but it feels sync related.

One thing that is confusing about Multiply is the way it handles
adding new cycles if you don't have Quantize set to Cycle or Loop.
If Quantize is off or Sub Cycle, try setting the preset parameter
Multiply Mode to New and see if that helps.

[Piesi]

all settings are set to default (basic looping) and I also tried to set multiplymode to "new", but had no success.

To show you, what exactly is happening, i have made a little video:
http://rapidshare.com/files/293232784/MVI_7548.AVI.html
or here: http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=8ed2a420964179d73f79ed86475baf8c
(it happens at the end)

[Piesi]

Hello,
after days of testing and searching for a workaround, I´m really desperate now:(

I´ve looked at the yahoo group again and found this:


Mon Jan 5, 2009 6:35 pm
RE: [zonemobius] Multiply

[teeodoubled3000]
> Begin Multiply and turn the loop into 3 or 4 bars long when I end
> multiply and it gets to the end of the cycle it goes back to the
> beginning of the 2nd bar insted of the 1st. Once it goes through again
> then it starts back on the 1st bar.

Strange, are you using any of the sync modes? I'm working on some
fairly major changes to Multiply, hopefully they will fix this.

Jeff


This is exactly the issue and sadly, the changes to Multiply didn´t fixed it.

I can´t understand why it seems, that I´m the only one here, who has a
Problem with this. Multiply is a very important function and the bug appears
in every sync mode. My only explanation is, that nobody uses sync here?!? :confused:

Unfortunately I can´t go without sync, because I use Arppegiators and like to jam
with a friend who has a drumbox (Ni Maschine)...

Is there any chance, that this will be fixed soon?

kind Regards,
Frank

[Piesi]

Hi Jeff,

some days have passed now and there are two things, I would be very grateful to know:

1. have you been able to reproduce that behaviour and/or can you confirm, that this is a bug?

2. You said, "it feels sync related". Are you currently (or in future) working on other sync related bugs or sync in general?


this is all i have too know, to get down and let it go...

Frank

[Lunamusic]

I've experienced this too. Definitely sync related.

[Lunamusic]

I've experienced this too. Definitely sync related. Although I see it when going to next loop, which I guess would be the same thing as the 2nd loop is longer, or shorter.

[Jeff]

I'll try to look at it this weekend. I'm finishing up a release with Shuffle
fixes and hopfully a first cut at bi-directional MIDI parameter exchange.

Then I will be turning my attention to synchronization for awhile. There
is a long backlog of sync problems that need to be addressed.

[Piesi]

sounds great, thanks!
this "bi-directional MIDI parameter exchange" thing
is really exciting...

[Lunamusic]

I am bi-directional MIDI parameter exchange curious. What is that?

[admin]

Bi-directional MIDI parameters means that if you bind a CC to
a parameter, for example CC 7 to Output Level, then whenever you
change Output Level in a script or in the UI Mobius will send CC 7
with the new value to the MIDI output device.

This is used for newer control surfaces like the Behringer BCR2000
that have "soft" knobs that don't have a physical start and end point, they
rotate freely and usually have LEDs or some way of showing where
the current value is. Changing the parameter in Mobius will make
the control surface change to the same value.

[Jeff]

I found the bug here (with Multiply ending in the middle of the loop)
it will be fixed in the next release.

[moinho]

I am bi-directional MIDI parameter exchange curious. What is that?

See this thread:
http://www.circularlabs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64

[Piesi]

Bugs fixed:

- With SyncMode=Out, ending a Multiply sometimes starts
playing at the beginning of the last cycle rather than
starting over from the beginning.


I´ve just testet the 1.41 version and unfortunately I can´t confirm this bug
is gone. It´s a really nasty one, because you don´t know when it comes.
It can go 15 times right, and then one time wrong.


I also would describe the bug a little different than mentioned above:

"With every SyncMode, ending a Multiply sometimes starts
playing at the beginning of the second cycle rather than
starting over from the beginning."


I´m sorry if this gets annoying, but I just want to do my best, to make this
issue as transparent as possible, because its such an important an basic function.
I really need to be sure it works everytime the same way, so I can close my eyes and play...

Regards,
Frank

[louie]

guys check out buzap new script "luiloop1" this has solved the problem of multiply and you can do it all with a single button!

[Piesi]

thanks Louie, this really is a mighty script!

But... no, for me it didn´t solve the issue, I had described here.
Have you tested it thoroughly? Are you sure you mean the same thing?

Well, I´m looking forward to future releases now. Maybe it sorts itself out, after
Jeff has worked off the backlog of sync problems he wanted to address...

[Per Boysen]

Hi Frank,

This multiply issue has been in Mobius as long as I have used it - about four years I think. I use two workarounds in order to not get that bump or end up with a new loop one cycle too long (my SwichQuant setting is a Cycle). Either I go into Overdub Mode before hitting Multiply or I leave Multiply with an Overdub command.

My sync mode setting is "Out". My Track Sync setting is "Subcyclele" and I use "None" in the three boxes for sync adjustment.

[Jeff]

Okay, I'm getting confused....

Just so we're clear, Buzap's script adds extra behavior to *loop
triggering* so that if you "double click" it will start Multiply mode.

Nothing was "fixed" with Multiply so I don't think that's a solution
to the original problem (although it is a cool new feature for loop
triggering).

There was very definately a problem with Multiply combined with
SyncMode=Out that would cause it to start over in the middle rather
than the beginning about 10% of the time. This may not be the problem
you were seeing but it did look *exactly* like your video. I don't
know if you're Mac or PC, did you copy the new VST dll and/or AU component
to the plugin directory after upgrading? Check the Help->About
window to make sure the plugin is 1.41.

Per, the problem I remeber you having was ths weird "extra cycle" that
multiply would often add depending on where you started or ended the
multiply. That should have been fixed with MultiplyMode=New. Whas
there something more than just the extra cycle problem?

Piesi, could you enable trace and capture the log messages near the time
this mysterious play jump happens? There is a thread in the Tips and Tricks forum that describes this in more detail. Since this can be large just email
it to me directly at jeff@circularlabs.com Thanks.

[Piesi]

I´ll try to sort things out a bit...

Per, thank you for that advice! I´ve tried it and was very happy at first,
because the overdub indeed forces the Loop to begin from start. But then
I recognised, that the play jump happens one Loop later instead!

Jeff, I think what Louie ment was, that Buzaps script should have the same
effect as one of Pers workarounds (to press overdub, before going into
multiply), because on first click, it goes into overdub and when pressed a
second time short after, it goes into multiply. But it acts a little different,
because with buzaps script, mobius goes directly into playmode after
multiply. With Pers workaround it goes back into overdub after ending
multiply.

I made shure that I´ve used the version 1.41 (PC, Plugin) for testing, but
this play jump, you have seen in the video, is definitely still happening.
Not just in syncmode "out", but also in snycmodes "out user start" "Host
Beat" and "Host Bar". I didn´t test the other ones yet.

So, did the log-file help to make things clearer?

[Jeff]

This thread has gone in a few directions, but the original problem where
ending a Multiply sometimes causes it to start playing at the beginning of the second cycle rather than the beginning of the loop should be fixed in 1.42.

[Piesi]

Mission accomplished:-)
Thank you very much, Jeff!