Time syncing VST plugs with Mobius in Bidule?

[stevoj]

Has anyone had any success with this ?

Specifically, I'd like to be able to record a loop, then have my 'Tremollama' plug time synchronised with the loop length. Seb@ the Bidule Forum advised me to use the 'Midi Clock to Sync' modlue, but I still can't get Mobius to Sync up with Tremollama (I've tried changing the devices in the Sync box, I've tried wiring the Midi OP to IP etc, but no luck). Does anyone know if this is possible?

[Per Boysen]

Has anyone had any success with this ?Yes.

still can't get Mobius to Sync up with TremollamaCan't tell about that, but I've successfully done it the other way; syncing all plug-ins to Mobius.

[stevoj]

Yes.

Can't tell about that, but I've successfully done it the other way; syncing all plug-ins to Mobius.

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. I want to use Mobius as the master clock. Can you recommend 1 VST plug-in that actually works Per, so at least I'll know whether I've got Bidule set up OK, as I'm still really struggling here. btw, I have Mobius set to sync out, and it does display a Tempo after the first loop is made, so that side of things seems OK...

....Except (another topic really but anyway...) if I change the loop length somehow (by adding a sub-cycle, or changing the rate), I notice that the tempo displayed doesn't change. It really should.

[Per Boysen]

Here's a walk-through I uploaded on "Syncing plugins and stuff to Mobius in Bidule":
http://www.circularlabs.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3&pictureid=5

Regarding tempo vs loop length and rate you should exeriment with the different settings in Mobius to find the way you want it to work. This may also behave differently depending on if the loop you mangle is located on the Master Track or any other (slaving) Mobius tracks.

[stevoj]

Per, you are a genius and a gentleman. Thanks to your very clear walkthrough, I am now making some great new synced up sliced sounds, this opens up a whole new world of sound to me. Very much appreciated, thanks. I hadn't even heard of 'Midi Yoke' before, let alone know that I needed one, I clearly still have so much to learn.

Of course, I now have another problem (isn't that always the way!), although it's only a little one. When I have a loop running, I notice that the Tempo displayed in the 'Midi Sync to Clock' bidule module is constantly changing, albeit very slightly - ie, only a few tenths at most (is this normal?). However, this is enough to produce unpleasant clicky glitches when syncing certain delays (eg, the Kjaerhus Classic Delay), as if I'm constantly turning the delay time control slightly - very annoying. I have found a workaround, which is to select 'overide tempo' in the 'Midi Sync to Clock' bidule (I could even assign this to a midi key for ease of use I guess). The problem here though is to remember to deselect this button when I make the next loop, otherwise I'm stuck with that tempo. I suppose another option is to use a different delay which doesn't mind having it's time knob tweaked (edit: can't find any, they either seem to click glitch or pitch / rate shift glitch - not much better unless that's what you want), but I do rather like the Kjaerhus effect otherwise. Any other ideas?

Also, how do I limit the range of BPM as you mentioned in your link?

I still believe that when the master loop length is changed by mangling it somehow (see end of my previous post), the tempo should be reset accordingly. This doesn't seem to happen - Jeff?

[Piesi]

hi Stevoj,
the override-tempo-workaround is maybe the best way at this time. But Jeff is currently redesigning the syncengine, which may improve its behaviour in that sense. But I´am not sure if this maybe is an issue with that "Midi Clock to Sync"-module.
Another way would be my "syncing Mobius although syncmode is "off"" approach. I´ve tested it thoroughly and it´s really much more stable than the current mobius sync, but less comfortable in handling. It works with the bidule internal sync, so you don´t need to use Midi Clock for that...

[stevoj]

Another way would be my "syncing Mobius although syncmode is "off"" approach. I´ve tested it thoroughly and it´s really much more stable than the current mobius sync, but less comfortable in handling. It works with the bidule internal sync, so you don´t need to use Midi Clock for that...

Sounds interesting Piesi, tell me more...

Stephen

Edit: Oh don't worry, I've just found your original post, I'll try that, thanks.

[Piesi]

Last month, I added some more funtions to this group:

- it only uses the first two (rec/play) footpresses for bpm calculating. This resets when you send a reset-command to Mobius.
- resync: When you press this button, the group will send a rec-command on the beginning of every sync-cycle, until you press it again.

if you like to have it, i´ll upload that group for you. But it could take a few days to format it in order to make it easier to understand, how it can be used.

[stevoj]

Last month, I added some more funtions to this group:

- it only uses the first two (rec/play) footpresses for bpm calculating. This resets when you send a reset-command to Mobius.
- resync: When you press this button, the group will send a rec-command on the beginning of every sync-cycle, until you press it again.

if you like to have it, i´ll upload that group for you. But it could take a few days to format it in order to make it easier to understand, how it can be used.

Yes please Piesi !

[Piesi]

ok, I´ll upload this in a few days...!

[Piesi]

here it is...:-)

[stevoj]

cheers, i have dl'd and wll try iy out when i have some free time.

S

[Piesi]

I just want to add an explanation on how this Bidule group works and
how to use it:

When Mobius is in a sync mode other than "off", it sometimes does strange
things and in my experience the synchronization between the tracks is also
not that stable then.
So the idea was to find a way to sync Mobius to other plugins, although sync
mode is "off".

let´s start
The group input has to be connected to your record button and the input
filter(open structure) has to bet set to the recbutton CC number.

if then it recieves a record event, it will start to count the time and a CC
event, which you can specify in group gui (recordCC), is generated at the
output (to send to Mobius, Mobius starts recording).

Then, if you press rec again, it stopps counting and calculates the bpm time
(you can set a minimum bpm on the gui). Again, a recordCC is generated at
the output and Mobius starts playing.

now, every pluging in Bidule, which is synced to "Tab2Sync" is synced to Mobius!

The group is now unsensitive for incoming events, so pressing record again
to record on a different track will not change the time.

Only if you hold record for a specified time(gui: globalresettime), the group
will become sensitive again. Also a CC message (gui: globalresetCC) is sent. I
think, it makes most sense to bind it with the global reset function.


An additional function is"resync". If it is active, a recordCC event is sent every
synccycle. This is to resync Mobius to the sync group if you have accidently
resetted Mobius.

If´ve made good experience so far. The sync was allways stable and there
was no notable syncdrift yet. (did 3 hour test by recording a loop from a
(before synced) drummachine and let the recorded copy and the original play
together.)

salute!

[headrot]

Hi guys, I'm trying to get my stuff to sync-up in the way you have described in this topic, but (being more than a little noob-ish) I can seem to get midi-OX to "see" bidule or vise versa.
In Per's helpful picture (http://www.circularlabs.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3&pictureid=5) step 2 is:
Set Mobius to "Plugin Output Devices = IAC Driver IAC Bus 1"
But this option is not there, neither is step 3:
In Bidule, open the IAC Bus (as "MIDI Device")
I think midi-OX and Bidule are not hooked up/communicating properly - how do I get this set-up?
Thanks for any reply

EDIT: know knowing what I do - thought I put some good advice out there for people getting started with midi:OX - in the midi port routing window you connect your midi devices from left (input midi devices) to right (midi output). For the output - download "loopbe internal midi port" from the net and use that as your output for all your midi devices (re-configured or not).
Now all thats going on inside midiox is shunted to loopbe, minimise midiox and just insert loopbe as your midi device in which ever program your using

[Stephen Kemp]

Hi

Have you activated the IAC bus in audio/midi set up? You need to tick the box that says "online". Then the option should appear.

I'm trying to sync mainstage to Mobius - has anyone got this working? I have followed Per's instructions and mainstage is receiving tempo - although I notice it seems to change slightly as the loop plays. It works ok for some tempo fx but it seems impossible to sync Ultrabeat - there's no way I can find to trigger it to start with loop start and sync seems to drift... Is this other people's experience? Anyone had any success doing this?

Stephen

[headrot]

Hello again!
I have a question for Piesi:
Your sync group for bidule that you so kindly posted here works great - I just have one question - Is there a (easy) way to double the tempo calculated by the method?
I opened up the group and it's wayyyy beyond my understanding, but a simple bit of tinkering should be able to get the tempo x2 right?
I use it to record a drum loop which tends to be quite long so the resulting tempo to sync is low, about 40-80, which causes problems with other instruments that are sync'd to it....
Look forward to any reply and thanks again to people like Piesi that help noobies like myself he he

EDIT: I worked it out - open up (expand) the sync group (right click), doubleclick the tap2sync and bring up the gui window. THEN click parameters and increase the maximum "mintemp" (from 60 if I remember) to somthing like 140, now the tap2sync will only calculate a bpm over 140 - I don't know how it works but it does - happy days
Thanks again Piesi for posting this group ; )