Mobius + Mainstage + Midi

[scheffkoch]

hi,

i'm about to setup mobius as a plugin within mainstage.
following the "mobius documentation" you should control mobius using the plugin parameters, but i got the impression that mobius reacts not instantly to the buttons of my akai lpd8...most of the time (if not always) i have to push the pads twice to get a reaction eg. selecting tracks (although lpd8 is set to "momentary")...
when i setup midibindings with the lpd8 as a midi device i don't have this problem...mobius reacts instantly!
can someone confirm this behaviour?

would it be o.k. if i control some functions of mobius with my lpd8 using midibindings and others via plugin parameters?...referring to the mobius manual it can cause problems when you select "direct" midibindings instead of plugin parameters when using mobius as a plugin...

thanks for your input!

[Per Boysen]

Hi,

I have fiddled extensively with both and finally found it best to set up MIDI bindings for Mobius only in Mobius MIDI control page (supported by appropriate settings in Mobius "MIDI Device Selection" window"). This means Mobius is snatching its MIDI control data directly from the MIDI In port without Mainstage knowing about that. This frees up work space on the screen to use Mainstage graphic control objects for other aspects of sound design.

If you do not follow this advice you may run into annoying down period situations where a complete MIDI control setup is lost only because you changed one thing (due to the "under the hood" software interchange between Mainstage and a plugin's parameters as reported to the host by the AU protocol).

Another good advice regarding Mainstage 2.2 is to set its preferences to not "send unassigned MIDI to all CHannel Strips". This option is new for version 2.2 and means a lot! Without it you would run into situations where an unintended MIDI event is sent into your laptop an instantly causes total mess to your mixer settings. No such chaos any more. The issue with pre 2.2 MS was that mixer functions were hard-wired to follow some parts of the GM concept (Roland's General MIDI protocol from the early eighties. Like for example a CC#7 affecting all volume settings).

The place in Mainstage to set this up is a bit hidden away, so here's how to find it:

1. Chose the Edit Window
2. Click the Assignments & Mappings tab
3. Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the list
4. Locate the header Channel 1-16
5. Under that header, select "Unassigned"
6. Voilá! Below, in the Screen Control Inspector you can now deselect the box "Send unassigned IDI to all Channel Strips"

[scheffkoch]

thank you very much for your explanations!!!

so you mean that "Mobius is snatching its MIDI control data directly from the MIDI In port without Mainstage knowing about that" is guarateed by deselecting "Send unassigned IDI to all Channel Strips"?!...or do i have to deselect the midi interface that controls mobius elsewhere in mainstage, audio/midi setup or wherever?...

...following your recommendations it doesn't seem a good idea to control some "basic" functions like record or overdub via mainstage (resp. the plugin parameters), whereas the majority would be controlled by mobius' midibindings, right?...

[Per Boysen]

so you mean that "Mobius is snatching its MIDI control data directly from the MIDI In port without Mainstage knowing about that" is guarateed by deselecting "Send unassigned IDI to all Channel Strips"?!No, these are two different issues. ...or do i have to deselect the midi interface that controls mobius elsewhere in mainstage, audio/midi setup or wherever?...You should never in the first place put anything up in Mainstage that has to do with "MS controlling Mobius". So there should not be anything to "deselect or whatever" in Mainstage. Piping external MIDI through Mainstage into Mobius is just a tedious workaround that will complicate looping with Mobius as a MS plugin. Just don't let Mainstage know about Mobius and use Mobius' own preferences to set up MIDI In Device and MIDI Bindings (and "plugin MIDI output" set to IAC Bus if you want Mainstage to slave sync to the the tempo you set by your playing and Mobius live looping. If so, also set Mainstage to follow tempo from the IAC Bus MIDI input. I guess this would be the way to go anyway because Host Sync doesn't work in the present version of Mobius AU, meaning Mobius AU plugin won't follow a tempo set in the host/Mainstage)
...following your recommendations it doesn't seem a good idea to control some "basic" functions like record or overdub via mainstage (resp. the plugin parameters), whereas the majority would be controlled by mobius' midibindings, right?...Correct. If you like it better admiring good looking graphics while typing in lost parameter assignments again and again, then my advice may not be relevant for you :-)

[scheffkoch]

...o.k., thanks...i thought that mainstage could have a problem with the controller itself (and that i have to "disable" the controller within MS) and not just with something "in Mainstage that has to do with "MS controlling Mobius""...now i have to figure out a way to control all these nice functions of mobius with my tiny little lpd8...ha...seems like i have to check for another controller...

btw...right now i'm working with a setup of three loopback-plugins (but i feel the need to expand and mobius seems to be top notch for my needs):

http://soundcloud.com/lineout-kistenfreestyle

[scheffkoch]

...back again...i have some problems with lost parameter assignments in ms...when you said "If you like it better admiring good looking graphics while typing in lost parameter assignments again and again, then my advice may not be relevant for you :-)" did you refer to lost mobius' parameter assignments or assingments within the mainstage concert?...right now my concert lost some track volume and bus-send assignments (all not related to mobius)...

[Per Boysen]

...back again...i have some problems with lost parameter assignments in ms...when you said "If you like it better admiring good looking graphics while typing in lost parameter assignments again and again, then my advice may not be relevant for you :-)" did you refer to lost mobius' parameter assignments or assingments within the mainstage concert?...right now my concert lost some track volume and bus-send assignments (all not related to mobius)...

Yes. I'm not sure about the technical details but it seems Mobius is reporting AU parameters to the host in a "pyramid form", like if you change one thing a lot of other bricks move into new positions. Myself I stopped using MS graphical objects for Mobius control long ago - after a time of complex disaster - and only control Mobius by direct MIDI input which I set up in the Mobius midi window. That works flawlessly for me and my Mobius instrument plays the same in any host I patch it up inside. Regularly using Mainstage, Bidule and Ableoton here so I'm very happy for Mobius being able to function as a module in its own right

[scheffkoch]

thanks for your quick reply!

...since i set up mobius according to your recommendation (controlling mobius by direct midi input and without mainstage parameters) there must be a problem within ms 2.2 that causes the lost of the assignments...e.g. yesterday i couldn't control the volume of some patches and some other patches "forgot" their output-routing (to mobius) although the day before yesterday everything was working smooth...

[Per Boysen]

It might also be that some of your gear is sending in Roland GM supported MIDI events and what happens then is that Mainstage adjusts according to the received value of the CC#. There are many, but two examples of GM CC#s are CC#7 for volume, CC#10 for pan. Good thing with Mainstage 2.2 now is that you can turn that off (bottom of assignment page, if my memory serves me correctly).