SyncRecord

[Jeremy Tranter]

This is a feature on the EDP loop IV and on SooperLooper....
When loops are sync'd the recording starts as soon as you press record and the end of the loop is rounded to the same length as master loop.

I can't find how to do this in Mobius... Can anyone help me on this?

Thanks

Jeremy

p.s.
Useful to be able to define a new start point for a loop after you've done this so you can turn the second loop off and then restart it again in the same relationship to the master loop.

[Per Boysen]

Hi Jeremy,

Isn't that handled by the sync and Quant settings? To me it sounds as you are talking about either an EDP in Sync=In mode or in BrotherSync Mode? I mean, you normally never use the command Record if there are already loops spinning. If you do that you will destructively truncate the loop, just as with an EDP (messing up tempo sync output from the EDP and Track Sync in Mobius if done to the Master Track... which is the first track you create a loop on).

If pressing Record when the looper is synced (as in running as sync slave following a tempo master) the EDP waits for a new loop or cycle and Mobius for a new loop, cycle or sybcycle. It seem that you are talking about a function that fixes this from the other side? Instead of waiting for the cue before starting the recording processes it starts recording un-quantized and then adapts the length of the loop. I never found that function in my EDP. But Multiply works sort of like that in EDP and Mobius (depending on settings).

OH man, my head spins when looking at this post. Sorry about that, but I may not fully understand the question... :-) Later today I will look up "SyncRecord" in the EDP manual to get a better understanding.

[stevoj]

..or are you just asking about internal syncronisation of the 8 tracks Jeremy ?

In which case, the first track (loop) you create will automatically be set as the MasterLoop, and subsequent tracks will automatically be synced to that (I think 'Track Copy' might have to be set to 'timing' for this to work).

Also (commenting on the 2nd part of the post), if you just 'mute' a track, when you unmute it, it remains in sync with the other tracks. I'm not sure how to define a new start point, I'm sure there will be an easy way. Actually, I should look this up, it could be really useful in a creative or salvage way.

btw, welcome to the wonderful addictive world of Mobius Jeremy.

Stephen (Scott)

[Per Boysen]

To define a new starpoint you siimply hit "Startpoint". It will stick with the next quantization cusp. For example; I use "Quantize = Sub Cycle" so I can juggle my loops in time while still being in sync with other loops. This is great if starting out a performance with non rhytmic stuff, not looking at the screen and not knowing the length of the loop you are creating and layering into. When its about time to leave area abstracto and hit it right on you kick multiply twice to cut down the ambient cloud into a one cycle loop and then you listen for something that sounds like a downbeat and press Startpoint. Then on the next loop round it will start there in sync with the other loops you have cooking.

[stevoj]

Useful tip, thanks Per

Stephen

[Jeremy Tranter]

Hi Per and Steve,

Nice to meet you both here! I’ve just been lent a newer MacBook so I can finally get to grips with Mobius. All very exciting and more portable.

In Mobius when Sync Mode=“out” and Track Sync=“Subcycle”, “Cycle” or “Loop” then loops will synchronize similar to Brother Sync on EDP. Recording start is quantized to beginning of master loop.

When Sync Mode=“out” and Track Sync mode=“Off”, loops are not synchronized.

With Sync=“out” on two EDP (i.e. brother sync’d) SyncRecord allows unquantized recording to start when the record button pressed and then rounds the end of the loop to same length as master loop cycle (or multiples thereof). You don’t have to wait for start point of master loop.

(Worth noting that start point of slave loop is not when you pressed the record button but still at the start point of the master loop. )

I can’t find a way to get Mobius to do the same thing…….

Description of EDP SyncRecord in LoopIVGuide.pdf , chapter 5 and EchoplexPlusManual12.pdf , section 6.30 ; also SooperLooper has a similar feature called “rel sync”, description at http://www.essej.com/sooperlooper/doc_sync.html

Any pointers?

Thanks again

Jeremy



p.s. I’ve found how to redefine “Start Point” in Mobius by the simple expedient of reading the manual !!!! Lazy me.

[Per Boysen]

With Sync=“out” on two EDP (i.e. brother sync’d) SyncRecord allows unquantized recording to start when the record button pressed and then rounds the end of the loop to same length as master loop cycle (or multiples thereof). You don’t have to wait for start point of master loop. Ah, now I see what you mean! I did some EDP brother sync jamming with Matthias Grob once and it worked great... until I forgot to keep away from my usual way of ending a Multply with Record to cut down loop length. This action disabled brother sync, but that's a different story. Anyway, with Mobius I actually never start a new loop on a new track by using the Record command. This is a many year old habit from the first days of Mobius when I found that action created a loop out of sync with the master track loop (or your band mates, if running Mobius as a sync slave looper). Instead I set up Mobius to achieve the same player performance by using Multiply. When I go next track a new empty loop will be created there, if the new track is empty. This new loop will be of the same length as the loop I'm coming from on the previous track. Now I can simply kick Multiply to start "recording" on the next subcycle cusp. As usual with Multiply you just keep on as long as your muse suggests and then you kick Multiply a second time to set the new loop point. Or you may leave Multiply Mode by Overdub, if you did not start playing at the very beginning of the first loop cycle and now want to overdub the first part of the new loop to lead up to the longer run you just laid down. I'm finding this method seamlessly intuitive. Below are my settings.

In "Configuration/Preset" I set

General tab:
Multiply Mode = New
Round Mode enabled

Switch tab:
Switch Quantize = Cycle
Sampler Style = Start
Overdub/Reverse/Rate/Pitch Transfer = Off
Loop Copy = Timing
Track Copy = Timing
Time Copy Mode = Overdub
Sound Copy Mode = Play

Synchronization tab:
Sync MOde = Out
Track Sync Mode = Subcycle
Unrounded Sync Adjust = None
Speed Sync Adjust = None
Switch Sync Adjust = None
Minimum Tempo = 61
Maximum Tempo = 120
Realign Time = Subcycle

[Jeff]

If I understand correctly, there isn't a way in Mobius to do this
type of recording; start immediately and round at the end. Sync recording
in Mobius is geared around the notion of delaying the start until
it aligns with the master track in some way.

The way the EDP does it has some advantages, but I never liked it
because of the start point problem. It wouldn't be a difficult feature
to add though. If I do I'll also give it an "auto start point" feature
that immediately sets the start point after closing the loop so that
the start point aligns with the master track.

I'm in the process of a complete redesign of the synchronization code
right now, I'll see if I can work that in.

Until then, you'll have to live with the initial delay or use one of the
many "time copy" methods that have been described in this thread.

[Jeremy Tranter]

Hi Per and Jeff,

Thanks for detailed replies... really useful stuff. I'll get learning.

Best regards

Jeremy

[Jeremy Tranter]

Hi Jeff,

I'm not at the point where I can describe exactly what I'd sync features I'd like added, however if you are re-designing the synchronization code then now is the time to mention things.....


Synchronization by duration

Sync Record is an interesting function for me because it strikes a useful bridge between synchronised and unsynchronised working.

Material is musically coherent because its durations are related. Actual synchronisation can be achieved by manually identifying start point and (re)triggering.

I like synchronization independent of quantisation and any loop/cycle/midi boundaries. Useful when playing with other people because you can deploy your contributions exactly when you think they should start.

As allows different time signatures going simultaneously around the same pulse (I've always loved musical palindromes... ), throwing them in when they feel right and muting them when they get dodgy.


Migration into and out of Sync

I am further interested in techniques to migrate from freeform playing into tight, quantized synchronization, and back out again.

e.g I would like to be able to snip a section from an existing unsynchronised loop (end multiply with record?) and to tell Mobius this track will be sync master for subsequent new material.

Essentially I'd like as much room as possible to opt in and opt out of whatever sync sources are available with a particular aim of integrating with other players.

I hope this makes some sense! I'll keep working at it.

Regards

Jeremy