crash in bidulewith 5-6 layers

[rcrath]

Hi Jeff,
I wrote about this problem a long time ago on the yahoo board, but was traveling and the problem was intermittent so I was not able to catch it using dbwin until recently. ANy time I get a few layers of overdub going on mobius as a vst in a pretty complex and resource intensive bidule layout, mobius cuts out and switches to bypass. Sometimes I can just reset bypass and the loops will return but usually it just keeps resetting itself. The problem happens if I have several layers of overdub on one track or several single layer tracks going. Is this the problem described in http://www.circularlabs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105 ? The DBWin log output for one of the crashes is here:
http://way.net/tmp/~DBWIN2-mobius.log
If it is the loop flettening problem, could you let me know? Or is it something else. The layout I use uses a lot of resources, so my guess is that I am just running out of memory (I have 3 gigs plus virtual) but I am not sure.

The relevant lines seem to be:

VstMobius: BEAT: ppqPos: 3142.994158 range: 3143.002337 barStartPos 3140.000000 offset 182
VstMobius: BAR: ppqPos: 3143.995844 range: 3144.004022 barStartPos 3140.000000 offset 129
201 1870767: Sync: Recording pulse 15 cyclePulses 1 boundary 1
VstMobius: BEAT: ppqPos: 3144.997529 range: 3145.005708 barStartPos 3144.000000 offset 77
201 1928494: Function Record down
201 1928494: Loop: Add pending event RecordStop(Record) 0
201 1928494: Loop: Ignoring attempt to extend recording
201 1928494: Track::doFunction beginning long press for Record
VstMobius: BEAT: ppqPos: 3145.999214 range: 3146.007393 barStartPos 3144.000000 offset 24
201 1939502: Track::doFunction canceling long press for Record
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
101 458507: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 458763
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
101 458507: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 458763
VstMobius: Transport was forwarded
VstMobius: Playback jumped to bar beat 1
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
101 458507: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 458763
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
101 458507: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 458763
0 0: PluginThread: frame no longer running
0 0: PluginThread: deleting frame
VstMobius::DllMain DLL_THREAD_DETACH
0 0: PluginThread: frame deleted
VstMobius: Transport was forwarded
VstMobius: Playback jumped to bar beat 3
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
101 458507: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 458763
101 458507: Layer: Starting record fade in
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
201 1965870: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 1966126
ERROR: 0 0: Recorder::interrupt reentry!
201 1965870: Layer: Applying fade out before frame 1966126
VstMobius::DllMain DLL_THREAD_DETACH
VstMobius::DllMain DLL_THREAD_DETACH
VstPlugin::processEvents midi
b0 7b 0
VstPlugin::processEvents midi
b1 7b 0
VstPlugin::processEvents midi
:
:
VstPlugin::processEvents midi
bf 7b 0
VstMobius::suspend

[howldin]

Wow, I could have written this exact posting myself. This problem is THE thing keeping me from taking Mobius/Bidule on my laptop out to gig. I've been too busy with other musical adventures to begin a dogged pursuit of a solution, so it is a very welcome sight to see someone else taking the time to document it.

I say it is the same prob;em, but the truth is I have not isolated it to being about number of layers - I can really only say that I have the same symptom of Mobius switching to bypass at some point during complex, operation-intensive loop creation. Same setup, Mobius as a VST within a complex and resource-intensive Bidule layout.

Thank you, rcrath, for your post. I look forward to some enlightenment from Jeff.

Hal

[Piesi]

Same issue here!
because I often rerecord The output from mobius through fx and back to mobius, there is an extreme feedback when mobius goes to bypass.
really catastrophic, if this happens on stage...
unfortunately I couldn´t figure out, what conditions are leading to this behavior in my case.
But I can say that this happened to me, even with relative simple looping. I was just playing to a loop for a half an hour and suddenly there was this screaming feedback (rerecord routing was enabled, but no record) and mobuis was bypassed. To me, this is a rare event, which is not a good thing as it´s making it very hard to isolate.

So I´m happy, rcratch has managed to take a log!

[Jeff]

Hard to say what this is, unless you've got 16 or more layers this
probably isn't the SUSSubstitute bug that we were discussing in a different post. People regularly run all 8 tracks with 10 or so layers with no problems.
It is more likely something in the way the tracks were made, how they're synchronized, etc.

As you say, it could be running out of memory, but unless your loops
are minutes long that seems unlikely. When Bidule puts Mobius into bypass
it probably means Mobius crashed. Mobius will never put itself into bypass
but some hosts will catch crashes and disable the plugin.

The "Recorder::interrupt reentry!" message means that Mobius is doing
something that is taking a really long time (like maybe crashing) and it isn't keeping up with requests from Bidule to process the audio stream. The interesting part of the trace is what led up to this, so if you still have the file or you can reproduce it I'd like to see more of this.

Sorry I can't shed more light on this, it really could be anything. If it's hard to reproduce, I'd recommend just leaving debug trace on all the time whenever you practice, then if it crashes zip up the entire thing and
send it to me at jeff@circularlabs.com.

[rcrath]

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your response. The lines prior to the ones I posted should be in the full log above, which was for the entire session. The link again is http://way.net/tmp/~DBWIN2-mobius.log. I just posted a few lines of it in the post, but the rest is in the linked file. I'll keep the dbwin on for a while and will send any more logs directly to you.

Thanks for looking into this.

Rich

[rcrath]

Hard to say what this is, unless you've got 16 or more layers this
probably isn't the SUSSubstitute bug that we were discussing in a different post. People regularly run all 8 tracks with 10 or so layers with no problems.
It is more likely something in the way the tracks were made, how they're synchronized, etc.

As you say, it could be running out of memory, but unless your loops
are minutes long that seems unlikely. When Bidule puts Mobius into bypass
it probably means Mobius crashed. Mobius will never put itself into bypass
but some hosts will catch crashes and disable the plugin.

It generally happens when I have 2 or 3 tracks with at least one of them having multiple layers, usually from leaving feedback on full and using overdub, and then reversing or half-speeding some of them. Generally the loops are 8-32 bars long, so not short, but not minutes long either. I have 3 gigs of ram, but I think the layout I use really stresses out some part of the configuration, because the DSP/processor monitor in bidule occasionally spikes to over 100% for a moment and causes an audible crackle, a problem I have thus far been unable to resolve. Maybe Mobius is crashing then?

Thought maybe this info could help narrow things a bit more.

~Rich

[rcrath]

Hi Jeff, was the log linked to above enough or would you like more of them or any other information?
Best,
Rich

[Piesi]

My workaround for this problem is hosting Mobius in a Kore2-instance within Bidule. Haven´t had a crash since then:-) If you don´t have Kore2, maybe another VstPluginHost-Plugin will do the job as well. There are even free ones, you likely find them at KVR.

[Jeff]

Sorry for the delay on this guys, I'm just really swamped at work right now.
I'll try to look at the linked log this week.

[howldin]

Hey, I've just checked back and found that some discussion is underway about this. I'm enmeshed in several projects right now that won't allow me to spend serious time on this until after 3/21, at which time if it is useful I can attempt to duplicate my episodes and log them, and post the results here. For now I can offer this:

I use 6 tracks, 4 loops, as a basic template. Presets have all tracks set to Group 1, then after initial material is recorded I switch individual tracks to Group 2 for altering via 1/2-speed, rev, divide, etc. Usually before I hit NextLoop I have everything back in Group 1. I use a Peavy 1600X, FCB1010, a gamepad, and a another expression pedal to send commands to Bidule, VST instruments and effects, and Mobius. Without a doubt one way to crash is to send too many cc messages too fast, but I don't think that has ever resulted in the bypass phenomenon - that is a much cruder and nasty, screeching crash. I've learned the appropriate restraint and this hasn't happened for many months.

The bypass problem happens when I have a fair amount of material spinning, sometimes deep into the number of layers on some tracks. As I noted in my previous post, I have not been scientific about this as Rich has been.

One last thing- every once in a while when this happens, I can successfully change the status of Mobius within Bidule; usually, though, any such change lasts a split second before it returns to bypass.

I can't tell you how happy it would make me for this to go away. I've invested a LOT of time in setting up Bidule and Mobius to work together, and other than this, it is like walking into a dream to work with these tools. Jeff, whether this works out or not, bless you for Mobius.