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  #1  
Old 01-22-2014, 08:47 AM
benmcmullan benmcmullan is offline
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Angry Ableton 9 "Track Copy Timing" Does Not Copy Timing

I cannot get Track Copy Timing to work in Ableton 9, using Host Sync.

"Track Copy Sound" copies the length of the loop perfectly (Overdub or Play mode), but "Track Copy Timing" makes the second track exactly one bar long (Overdub or Play mode), or adds bars infinitely (Multiply or Insert mode).

I want Track Copy Timing to Copy the exact length of the loop in Track one to a new loop in Track two.

For example, I record a two bar loop in track one, then switch to track two, and it begins recording a two bar loop. No more, no less.

Does anyone know how to do this?

Thanks,
Ben
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2014, 07:29 PM
Bodde Bodde is offline
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Think I have a similar problem. Ableton is only looping one bar when using Host Sync. Posted this a while ago but don't come any further. So I am going to subscribe to this topic. Hope someone jumps in:

Here is what I want to do: Make a synced loop to my metronome or drum loop from my host. After recording the initial loop I want to make a loop switch to a new loop of exactly the same length so that it starts recording automatically when the first loop ends.

I have my synchronization set to host and have Empty loop action set to copy timing. Time copy mode is set to overdub. I think this is the correct setting?
Now when I record my initial loop of two bars and switch loop it records only 1 bar instead of 2.

What am I doing wrong?
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Last edited by Bodde; 01-23-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2017, 12:38 AM
lvdb lvdb is offline
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Bumping this thread because the issue is driving me up the wall.

I've tried a number of ways to work around it only to discover more issues.

I am using JbridgeM, Ableton 9 64bit, and MacOS Sierra.

for example

!name Scroller
wait cycle
NextTrack
wait Last
InstantMultiply $track1.cycleCount
overdub **This line relevant to your empty track action**
end

Trouble is that for some reason $track1 very inconsistently finds the target and instead instantly multiplies by 2. Seems like with sync=host, Mobius is stuck thinking that the cycleCount is always 1 measure which it then multiplies by 2.



I do not wish to have Mobius as master because I am using Ableton link to work with some other players and find it much more stable than other Midi syncing options, considering using Network Midi as the master of mobius and utilizing the midi thru capability of Mobius but I am confident that between the inherit instability of the network midi clock and a midi loopback device, this method will fall short.

Would love some help fixing the $track1.cycleCount, or any other ideas for a work around. In the meanwhile I will just be using NextTrack with EmptyTrackAction = Multiply.

Last edited by lvdb; 02-13-2017 at 12:40 AM.
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  #4  
Old 05-30-2017, 01:16 PM
Daak Daak is offline
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Hello,

I am also having the exact same issue as above with Ableton, host sync and copy timing. No matter how long my first loop is when using host sync the copied loop timing in the next track is always one Bar.

Please help!
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2017, 03:54 PM
PalmWino PalmWino is offline
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I'm sorry no-one here's addressed this issue for you guys yet - and I'm probably not going to be much help, since I never use host sync!
But from reading through http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/s...tm#Host%20Sync briefly I note that host sync can either be set to bar or beat; I wonder whether mobius is only using host sync when trying to copy timing in this case, and ignoring any internal sync parameters.
Has anyone tried setting the host's 'bar' to the desired length of the loop?
ie, instead of the MIDI playin a 4/4 bar (say), it plays 8/8 (or 8/4...). I mean you can have 11/4, or 9/8 etc, so it should be possible.
If the 2nd loop comes out the right length by this means, it's a workaround, though it may not suit the way you want the setup to work, but at least gives an insight into what's going on.
The other observation from reading this was the statement about mobius not responding when the host transport stops, is an issue that "will be addressed in a future release" (which we're all waiting patiently for, of course), suggests to me there may be other 'unfinished' aspects of this part of mobius.
best I can do right now I'm afraid.....
Dave
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2017, 06:52 PM
groovetod2 groovetod2 is offline
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Didn’t stumble upon this thread until now. I mostly work with host sync and do know these issues. These occur not just with Ableton as a host but MainStage as well (and all other hosts, I guess). Bad news: yes, there are issues with host sync which probably won’t be resolved until the next version of Mobius at least. The good news is: Until now I could always deal with it and get my setup running. Reading through the different posts I think there might be several bugs involved. Let’s start with the main one:

1.) Copy timing does not copy timing - and you can’t convince Mobius to do this - period! Actually I like this behaviour, since I have no problems recording odd measured loops (i.e. 8 bars on track 1 and 9 bars on track 2). If you choose Insert or Multiply as time copy mode, Mobius starts adding bars until you hit „Insert“ or „Multiply“ again. And there’s actually the first workaround: If you switched the loop you can hit „Insert/Multiply“ again to start playback after the desired amount of bars. Mobius will still quantise to the next bar and is perfectly in sync with your other tracks.

Another possibility would be to write a script and use the ‚wait‘ statement to delay the „Insert/Multiply“ function.

A third option would be to use AutoRecord. Define a preset with the desired amount of bars you want to record and apply this preset to your tracks via the track setup.

I didn’t try Dave’s idea of changing the meter within ableton. It’s worth a shot, but bear in mind that most functions that obey quantisation will actually quantise to every second bar in this case.

All workarounds mentioned above won’t actually copy the timing. There might be another workaround, but I din’t try it yet. You could just use the Sound copy mode or perform a loop copy and use the Replace function to overwrite the content.

A last idea I also didn’t fully explore yet is to use host sync on just one track and use track sync on all other tracks. You need just one track to sync to the host all other tracks can sync to that master track. All host sync related issues might be gone.

2.) Other scripting bugs related to host sync: Some functions I used in scripting also behaved differently in host sync mode. The issue lvdb ran into might be one of those. For instance a statement like „wait cycles 4“ doesn’t work. Mobius will ignore the 4 and just wait one cycle. But you can stack 4 ‚wait‘ statements to get the same result.

3.) The correct quantisation and switch settings: I usually use cycle as quantise mode as well as switch mode since Mobius interprets a cycle as a bar in host sync. I use copy timing as empty track and empty loop action with time copy mode set to Insert. This way Mobius records not just one bar, but as many bars until you hit Insert again. One more thing: I set „record/overdub follow“ to off, since there are also issues if you switch to another loop without cancelling the current function.


So those are my general ideas to deal with these problems. I can be more specific if needed, but I need more information on a specific setup. Can’t deal with all at once

Happy experimenting
- Ben

PS: I hope you all get what I’m trying to say, this is not my native language and the topic is quite complex…
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2017, 07:12 AM
PalmWino PalmWino is offline
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Thanks for that confirmation of our worst fears...!
One other comment I meant to make here - is anyone trying quantize/switch quantize set to loop rather than cycle? I think I saw this mentioned elsewhere in connection with this problem, but I'm not sure.
Logically, if mobius interprets cycle as 'bar' in host mode, then what you want is for it to recognize loop for what it is - the loop length however many bars (or cycles); I suspect it doesn't do this, so label it as a bug
Dave
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:03 AM
groovetod2 groovetod2 is offline
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I just tried that. Didn't change a thing. Mobius will still just record one bar in Time Copy mode=Play/Overdub or continuing recording bars in Insert/Multiply mode until Insert or Multiply are executed again.

Scripting the next loop with the same length as the previous one is not a problem. The code below works. Although 'NextLoop' obeys to quantisation settings the first 'wait' statement is necessary, otherwise the 'wait loop' statement won't wait long enough (A bug, I guess - maybe the same one).

Code:
wait cycle
NextLoop

for 1
  wait loop
  Insert
next
Using another track isn't that easy, because Mobius always adds a bar too much. Also does NextTrack not obey quantisation for some reason (another bug, I suppose). The code below is the best solution I can come up with for the moment. The trimming of the last bar has to be delayed a loop for some reason, otherwise it won't be executed at the right time.

Code:
wait cycle
NextTrack

for 1
  wait loop
next

for 2
  Insert
  Restart
next

for 1
  wait loop
next

for 2
  TrimEnd
next
I don't know whether those code snippets are practical in real life situations, but maybe they help someone getting the right idea.

I personally got used to the easiest solution - just perform the second Insert manually. Or I write scripts performing several functions at the same time, so I don't need to step that much on my foot controller...
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